Reaching the World with Jesus
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Last update on July 31, 2008
Title; Concerning Woman Preachers
Greetings Little Flock,
Well I do have lots of mail and I normally don't bother to much with outsiders of my little flock but I'll try and answer this sort of as I read it... So my answers will be in the letter you wrote in this color and yours in blue and in italics...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 9:37 PM
Subject: In RE:
I read a friend's letter that you sent out, and your response to a lady concerning women preacher's sounded very unchristian to be coming from someone who calls himself a minister of God............ in fact, it sounded like it had some flesh involved instead of anointed words............... I must admit I'm not pleased with being raked over the coals even when I am wrong but when I didn't deserve it well that is another matter and then by a non respectful woman who doesn't know that the man of God is to be respected is totally another thing. I'm not to be respected because of myself but because of the One I represent...
Right or wrong, you response was very unkind...........and I feel you owe her an apology...........
Quite the contrary, I am the one who needs to be apologized to. And if this was unkind I guess that had you and some of these other ladies lived in Jesus' day you'd have ridiculed Him for calling the Heodians and Pharisees vipers and fools and hypocrites...Matt.22 & 23 and written Him and told Him how wrong He was to insult their integrity…
I was a Baptist for many many years, and believed exactly as you do........but, now, I would have to disagree with you to a certain point............and no, I have not fallen away............
Yes you have.
I do not believe in women pastors, who would rule over a body of sheep, but, women ministering the word of God is not usurping authority......... Only if they are teaching the younger women and children... NOT men
I would like for you to answer some questions for me............and like I said, I was a Baptist for years and years.............but, God got to talking to me about some things that I could not find any scripture whatsoever for..............such as............Appointing a pulpit committee, to go out and check out pastors, and have one come and try out to pastor the church, and the church vote on them....... Our church doesn’t send out a pulpit committee to go to another church and listen to a preacher but rather we vote for a pulpit committee of three men to send for God called preachers and men of God to come and preach for the whole church which in turn will at some point in time and after much soul seeking and prayer vote whether this man of God is to be called or not. The women do vote as do the men for the new preacher…
and perhaps the present pastor take another church, and the flock be left without a shepherd......... I believe in the Bible, there was always a replacement before the shepherd left............ does a shepherd watching his sheep in the field go off and leave them, until another comes........absolutely not......... Wrong. The Sheppard goes home for supper and to bed oft times leaving his sheep dog to watch. if he did, the wolves would come in and devour the sheep......... same as in pastoring of a church.......... No the wolves won’t enter because we have sheep dog deacons (men) who watch over the church while we are waiting on God to show us who He would have to replace the pastor who has left.
another thing........where is the scripture of having to have a church letter to join another Baptist Church, or a statement that you belonged to a Baptist Church........ You say that you were a Baptist but you don’t know any Baptist doctrine. I would suggest you go to a Christian book and look for ‘Pendleton’s Baptist Doctrine in One Year’ There you will find these scriptures which Baptist use for all these different doctrines you are trying to cover her.
and if you never, you had to be re-baptized..........also.........to take the Lord's Supper, or Communion, whichever you call it, where does it say you have to belong to that particular church to partake of it.........A Baptist Christian is no more God's child than one that goes to another denomination........... A True Bible believing church is a local visible body of Baptized believers and not some invisible or universal church of Christians. There are many Baptist churches. Churches, (plural) made up of born again Christians who fellowship together: Many under shepherds are represented here. When a born again Child of God joins a church they are received by letter from another Baptist church to show that they are Baptist in belief and like faith and not of a different doctrinal belief... OR They are, after affirmation of faith, baptized into that particular body of believers.
And concerning the Lord’s supper; I Corinthians 10: 16, 22 When Jesus partook of the Lord’s supper, who did He invite? Who partook of the supper with Him? Did Jesus partake of the bread with ALL the disciples who had followed Him? No! He partook with His first church which consisted of the 12 disciples. And vs. 20 covers that the local church members are those who should partake of the Lord supper… Each church is separate of each other and the members are separate but are all children of God. They live in different locations and worship in different locations and are individual churches in that respect.
The Bible refers to some of these churches in Rev. ex. (Pergamos, Sardis, Laodicea, Ephesus, etc. ) I Corinthians 11; 23, 26
as long as they have truly been born again...........I realize it is a Church orinance, but, all Christians are God's Church.......... Wrong there. All Christians are not God church… Listen, there so many different denomination that it would difficult to name them and each with different doctrines and beliefs. While there may be some of God’s children in these churches they are in a false teaching church and not the true church of God. They will be guest at the Heavenly wedding but not the bride… Only those of the true church will make up the bride…
I would like to know where the scriptures for these are found.........I have not been able to locate them........... As I said before what you are asking takes years of study and can’t be answered in one letter and I feel you know this and normally I don’t have time to go into this depth without sharing it will all my little flock so all will benefit but if you are truly seeking some answers go to my Heaven Bound site and read the Statement of faith… You’ll find much of the verses you seek there. Here is the URL; http://www.geocities.com/j1conair/Once_Saved.html
Also on the Allegre church site is a booklet called the Trail of Blood you can find some answers on the church history and scriptures in 5 lectures and charts. And here is the address. http://www.geocities.com/ambc202000/Trail_of_Blood_Introduction.html I’ve just touched the tip of the ice burg so to speak… I’m not going to do all the work for you. I’ve already done my part of the studies and have my convictions based on the guidance and unction of the Holy Spirit…
I John 2: 18, 29
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
I do think you need to pray about your attitude...........if you think harshness is the way to go, I will pray for you.........
My Attitude? When it comes to doing the work of God my attitude is simple. Tell it like it is. The truth will set you free and I’m free indeed. I sleep good at night with a clear conscience… But one thing I’m not as most of my little flock who have been with me any length of time know and will testify too. Their online pastor is not, (NOT) a mealy mouthed, wishy, washy, preacher who would will knuckle down to anyone because they have guilt pains from a Bible truth which has hit them between the eyes and stirred them up… And especially from a tale waging woman or women wanting to tell me off for preaching a truth…
So if something I preach or teach, as I do the email part of this ministry, offends you and I’ve put the scripture to enforce my statements then don’t mouth off to me in disrespect for my position. Take it up with the one who wrote it… He’s easy to get in touch with… Just hit the floor with those knees and begin talking to Him. But be forewarned. You may not like the answer He gives you…
In Christ's love, Sissy
Well, I guess that is all for now. I’m going to send this out to all but please; Now, if it is alright with you all may we get on to something else, hopefully a little more peaceable. I don’t mind a small debate once in awhile but don’t feel like dragging it on and on and hashing over the same things…
I wish to thank you all for your time and patience and for the prayer support of most of you. As I have said there are only a couple who are leaving. Most have accepted what the Bible has said. So let’s leave it there. I’m going to place some of the letters I’ve received both good and bad. I just wish to share their opinions with you all. I hope that you will receive a blessing as you read the different opinions and sort out for yourselves the tares and thorns which were among the wheat… (smile)
Here are a couple of letters I’ve received. I’ll not reveal the last names in order to not embarrass anyone. That is not the purpose. I just wish to share the feelings of some of my little flock and then a couple from the now former members…
This first letter was such a joy I wanted to start this part of the sharing on a happy note… (smile)
know me, but I live close to you, in Hopkinsville, Kentucky.... When I
read this, I immediately thought of you, and was convicted by the Holy
Spirit to send it to you as an encouragement and a blessing to you.... I
have often thought about getting in my car and trying to find your beloved
Bar-K-Ranch, and meet you personally, along with your dear Connie girl...
Have a great day Brother Keeling, and keep standing on the TRUTH....
Note; This next letter from one of my sisters is short and sweet…
Please remove me from your mailing list.
I was offended by your comments in your last newsletter about women and their role in the church. I feel you took the scripture out of its context and did not really clarify Paul's reason for saying that about women. And your comments directed to Barbara S. were totally uncalled for in a newsletter going to "your little flock."
Whew what a message. I'm a woman and agree with you wholly. May I say "Preach on brother, preach on"?......smile. Been a loooooooong time since I heard a message like that. That'll put one on shouting ground...!!!
I am very disappointed in your email concerning women and women ministers. Your abusive way of talking about women is very disrespectful and degrading.
The way you acknowledge people in general is reprehensible. You have the mentality of a cave dweller. Your superficial drivel and lack of kindess should win you the schlemiel of the year award. You are so glutted with yourself that you can find no love in your heart for others. Your high handed ways are a cover up for your own lack of intelligence, love and self assurance in yourself. If truth were to be known, you probably hate the way you live, your wife and everything around you. You are a pathetic man. You have my sympathy. Please remove me from your list.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!! I am not a "hen" do not live in a "henhouse" and I do not "cluck" You are showing your "good ole boy" mentality Mr. Keeling. You say women were or are not to lead...Read your Old Testament. you have been so terribley Holier than thou in this, your latest newsletter i was apalled. And if you were at all as familiar with your New Testament as you claim you would know that there were several women leaders of the start-up churches in the New Testament. I simply do not understand why you would attack women so viciously as you did in this e-mailing. Perhaps you question your masculinity so have to demean women in order to feel more a man. God bless you and may He show you some grace.
GLORY TO GOD!!!!!!
GOOD PREACHING, PREACHER!!!!!!
I DO NOT KNOW HOW LONG I HAVE BEEN IN YOUR "LITTLE FLOCK", (could you tell me?) BUT THANK GOD THAT I AM!!!!! THIS WAS GOOD SIR, GOOD THAT YOU HEAR THE HOLY GHOST WHEN HE SPEAKS AND THEN PREACH IT. WHEN I WROTE MY VERY FIRST LETTER TO YOU, WAY BACK WHEN, YOU CHIDED ME JOKINGLY ON ADDRESSING YOU AS "SIR". WELL, SIR, YOU JUST EXPLAINED WHY I DO SO. AS A MAN, A REAL MAN, GOD'S MAN, MY "OTHER" PREACHER, YOU ARE BIBLICALLY AND LOVINGLY DESERVING OF RESPECT FROM ME, AND IT IS MY
PRIVILEGE TO GIVE IT TO YOU WITH MUCH LOVE. WHY?
BECAUSE GOD COMMANDS ME, AS A WOMAN, TO DO SO. IF THESE OTHER WOMEN WOULD ONLY COMPLY, THEY WOULD REALIZE HOW MUCH SIMPLER LIFE COULD BE, BECAUSE THE BIBLE EXPLAINS THEIR PLACE IN LIFE.
THANK YOU AGAIN, SIR FOR THIS SERMON, AND I DO CONSIDER YOUR LETTERS TO BE "BONUS" SERMONS. AND AS I HAVE WRITTEN IN PAST TO YOU, YOUR LETTERS MAKE ME FEEL LIKE WE ARE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS, EVEN THOUGH WE ARE MILES APART. THEN AGAIN, MILES DON'T COUNT IN THE CLOSE NESS OF OF GOD'S CHILDREN.
I HOPE THIS LETTER DOESN'T COME ACROSS THAT I AM "SOUNDING OFF", LIKE THE LADY THAT WROTE YOU THAT NASTY LETTER, IT'S JUST THAT I GET SO EXCITED WHEN I HEAR (or read....lol) A "ON FIRE" PREACHING MESSAGE, AND SIR, YOUR MESSAGE WAS SO HOT IT BURNED A HOLE IN MY SCREEN… LOL.... AND MY HEART. WHEN MY DEAR PASTOR PREACHES A MESSAGE LIKE YOURS, I CAN'T WAIT TO GET IN HIS FACE AND THANK HIM AND TELL HIM HOW GREAT IT WAS AND TO ENCOURAGE HIM TO GIVE ME MORE...
THAT'S ALL I EVER WANT MY LETTERS TO BE FOR YOU, SIR,
AN ENCOURAGEMENT AS IN 2 CHRON 31;4.......that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord. AND IN 2 CHRON 35: 2........... encourage them to the service of the house of the Lord.
NOW I HAVE A QUESTION.....WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE KJV AND THE KJB?????
AGAIN, SIR, THANK YOU FOR BEING MY FRIEND AND FOR PUTTING UP WITH ME.
GOD BLESS YOU.
Given the fact that I just spent the past 11 months sitting under the teaching of a WOMAN appointed by our Pastor to teach a discipleship class FOR women, I have to ask what your thoughts are on that subject? Women being discipled? Our pastor is a VERY godly man and spends hours upon hours studying the word of God and history and has written a couple of books, based on the signs of the end times and creation vs evolution, and his wife a very godly woman and they both teach, however she teaches children and women (not ALL the time) and he obviously teaches the WHOLE church. He would not (I believe) ever ask a woman to teach an adult mixed sex Sunday school class or even lead our Wednesday night services. At times, women have been asked to speak and to share testimony and to share a "teaching" if you will, that the Lord laid on their heart to share. While women are not placed in "authoritive" roles over the men of our church, we are not silenced either. I don’t know if I am misunderstanding what you are stating, but what I am seeing in what I am reading is that women are (for lack of a better phrase to express my uncertainty of what is being stated) to be seen and not heard.
Because we just studied the passage of which you spoke about Paul and the women, and the associate pastor's wife shared that her HUSBAND taught that exactly what Brenna stated, was what was going on at that moment.
I want to state that I DO AGREE very much so that the men have "lazed back" and allowed the women to be the spiritual leaders of the home, work outside the home, etc. Therefore, causing probably just as much of this mess as the "feminist movement" you referred to quite often. I DESIRE with all my heart for my husband to be the leader, but when HE is fully submitted to the Lord's will, then God will be able to fully move him into his rightful place. I do also, desire to be very much like the woman of Prov. 31. I want my husband to find such value in me and see me as a wife of noble character and men see that his character is one that is honorable and noble BECAUSE his wife is that of Prov 31
Women in my prayer circle have stood in agreement with me, seeking the Lord to grow in me a quiet and gentle spirit. I know my place and it is under submission to the LORD and in turn will be in submission to my husband, but the bible also states they are not to "lord" it over them. Husbands are not to control their wives and in my OPINION, some men (and women for that matter) read that verse that way, "Wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord" Eph 5:22 to mean that WHATEVER HE says is the gospel truth regardless and if you know it to be false "oh well" but thats not what it means I am sure of this. It goes on to say in vs 28 "In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife, loves himself. After all no one has ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, jsut as Christ does the church... vs33 "however, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must RESPECT her husband"
I do respect my husband very much. And my husband is slowly stepping into his role, yet seeks council from his wife and often have "taught" him if you will, the Word of God. I give my thoughts and often it is scripturally based and then I tell him to pray about it and follow the Lord's leading and I will submit, whether or not I agree or like it!
We had a situation concerning moving our child from one school to another and I did not want to move the child, yet my husband for 3 yrs wanted to move the child. WE sought council with our pastor who told us to seek God's face on the matter and I agreed (pastor and God as witnesses) to my husband that if he believed this is the way the Lord would have us go, then I would submit, HOWEVER I would not be happy about it (or so I was certain) (grinnin) I do not know for certain that the Lord ever confirmed it to my husband, but I know with all my heart that the Lord did confirm to me through fasting and prayer that submitting to my husbands decision on this matter was the thing He wanted for me to do. Needless to say, all anxiety and fear and negativity was GONE and I recieved in my spirit such a peace about the situation and so did our child. The first day at the new school was a fairly peaceful one with very little anxiety (no more than the first day jitters :-)
The teacher that ended up being our childs teacher was a godly woman and in fact called to tell me she was praying some scriptures for our child and wanted me to know that she would continue to pray.
This years teacher is wonderful and we just love her. SO God has blessed our family in part due to my submission and obedience. And I have often wondered why I failed to trust the Lord and my husband a long time ago and submit...alot of heartache, financial strain, fights, academic struggles and vehicle wear and tear would have been prevented.
I hope that this does not come off as me being completely against you, that is not what I mean at all.
I do believe that there are women who can teach the Word of God as well as and in some cases better than some men, but this stems from that if more men would STEP UP and take the roles that God had in mind for them from the foundation of the world, women would not have to step up and be the leaders in the homes and some cases in the churches.
I BY NO MEANS WANT TO BE THE LEADER IN MY HOME...>I PRAY OFTEN FOR GOD TO JUST TRANSFORM MY HUSBAND COMPLETELY and last summer the Lord did a work in my husband and I LOVED IT! There was no arguing about if we were going to church and when some one in the home said they didnt feel like it, he was the first to say "WE ARE GOING, ALL OF US" so basically "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" and then the enemy came in and took from us, which by the way we WILL TAKE BACK and then some!
My husband and I have been told by MEN OF GOD that WE are called to be in ministry (family ministry-such as council) I believe that with all my heart....however HE WILL BE THE LEADER and that is how I want it and how it should be, yet it is WE not HIM! We will each have our own roles and duties, but scripture says also in Eph 5:31 that the two shall become one flesh and we both believe that is in ALL areas of life. What affects me affects him and vise versa, good or bad!
I guess I was a bit thrown by your comments and did also feel as though women were being "attacked" and that you viewed women as less than.
Yes I did read the lesson and scriptures :-) and I 100% agree with the word of the Lord, it just seems (and maybe its the way it was worded) that women are not called to do anything but cook, clean and get pregnant. "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen" type of mentality and I just dont know that I believe that is what scripture is saying to us.
Yes Jesus saw women as a very important role. In fact, in the geneology of Christ there are in fact 3 other women besides His mother listed. Now my question would be, why are these women listed at all who cares....if women are only "helpers" for men?
You may decide to remove me after you have read this and I would understand, because while I do agree that the Man should be the leader of the home and so on and so forth....I do not agree that women are never called by GOD to be "teachers or preachers"
My child....is a FEMALE and this year went to camp for the first time, when she came home, she shared with us that she felt called to the mission field ( to preach the word of GOD)....now I don’t believe that she will ever marry, her heart is for the lost and ppl who don’t know Jesus. So my question to you then would be, do you believe that she is NOT called to do this and that if she persues this that she is walking out of the will of the Father? That she, being a female could not possibly be called to PREACH because she is a woman? (this is not meant sarcastically-this is a sincere question! this is why email stinks...because you have to assume the attitude and tone and facial expressions and its hard to decifer simply through words on a screen)
Please do not view this letter as an attempt to be arguementative. I do not mean it in that way. I simply am stating my THOUGHTS and beliefs and things I have been taught by MEN OF GOD and my questions and concerns. I just want to better understand (or attempt) your thought process and how you have interpreted the Word of God.
Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy letter and I do pray that I get a reply from you. I only seek to learn more, not to stir up a resistance so to speak :-)
God bless you and I pray that (as you prayed) the Holy Spirit will carry this forth in the context in which it was sent to you from me.
Note; I will answer this Jennifer, as soon as possible. Thank you for sharing this and the tender way it was presented… Your submissive nature is evident and your husband, I’m confident, is honored to call you his wife and helpmate…
Until we meet again;
May God Bless you as we grow together in His Word,
Once again I Thank YOU for visiting with me... If you don't know my Jesus
as your personal Saviour but would like to, why not, in your own words,
ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins, acknowledge that you believe that
Jesus was born of a virgin, suffered and gave his life on that old cross,
shedding His pure blood as the ultimate sacrifice for you, and that on the
third day arose from the grave and is on the right hand of God the Father
in heaven both now and forever more. And then ask Jesus to come into your
heart and save your soul, writing your name in the Lambs Book of Life.. If
you have accepted Jesus today, that means that your are saved and born
again. You have been adopted into the family of God just like me... I am
then not only your friend but your brother in Christ. Please write and let
me know of that decision so that I might pray and rejoice with you…
May God Bless you, each and everyone. With Love, Jim
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